Stikkord: St. Olave’s Church

Igår så dro jeg til vikingutstillingen ved Grosvenor Museum, i Chester. Jeg trodde de stengte kl. 18, så jeg rakk det ikke. Men Chester er en artig by

6. november 2010

Den St. Olavskirken i Chester, det var ikke den originale kirken. Men det var en stenkirke som var blitt bygget, hvor det før stod en tre/stav-kirke

Google Mail – St. Olave's Church in Chester

Erik Ribsskog

<eribsskog@gmail.com>

St. Olave’s Church in Chester

Steve Harding

<Steve.Harding@nottingham.ac.uk>

Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:31 AM

To:

Erik Ribsskog <eribsskog@gmail.com>

Dear Erik

Many thanks for your

email. I will write a more detailed reply later but I thought I'd better

point out that the present St. Olave's building is of course not the original

but is probably on the site of an original building which may have been

wooden – we don't know. It is in the southern part the city

which we believe to be the Scandinavian part of Chester in the 10th

Century (and includes the discovery site of a viking treasure hoard at Castle

Esplanade and some timber constructions similar to those in Dublin). The

main area of Norse settlement in the area was in Wirral where there is extensive

place name, archaeological and historical evidence, including 2 hogback

tombstones.

If you get a chance have

a look at my website

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/-sczsteve

and its links, but I will

write back to you more when I have some more time,

Beste

sommerhilsener

Steve

Harding

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/–sczsteve
steve.harding@nottingham.ac.uk
Tel: +44(0) 115 951 6148 (fax

6142)
Mob: +44(0) 78110 90635

From: Erik Ribsskog

[mailto:eribsskog@gmail.com]
Sent: 19 July 2009 19:25
To:

Steve.Harding@nottingham.ac.uk
Subject: St. Olave's Church in

Chester

Hi,

I'm from Norway, but I live in Liverpool, and the other day, I was in

Chester, and I coinsidentily

stubled upon, the St. Olave's Church, since I thought I had to see a bit

of the other towns and

cities, in the North-West, and not only Liverpool.

I took some pictures of the church, and posted on my blog.

From the 'sign' there, it could seem like the church was from the

18th century, so much was

my surprice, when I searched on the internet, and found, that the chuch

was almost a thousand

years old, built by Norwegian Vikings who were refugees from Dublin,

since they lost control there,

it seems to me, after reading on the internet about this.

I read on a blog called 'Ainscough Family History', which I found throug

Google, about the 'Viking

march', between the Wirral and Chester.

So I wrote a comment on that blog, with questions about the St. Olave's

Church, and was adviced

to contact you.

I was just wondering if the church is listed, since I don't think we

have that old viking stone-

buildings in Norway.

We have 'stav'-churches, in three, but I don't think we have any

stone-buildings, that are this old.

So, I was just curious about this.

I also wondered if there had been conflicts between the St. Olave's

Parish and the St. Michaels

Parish, since on one building, 'Nine Houses', the borded between the

parishes, was written on

the buildings facade.

And, I was also wondering, why it isn't a plaque there, explaining about,

that the church is almost

a thousand years old, built by Vikings from Ireland, because the plaque

that's there now, makes

it almost seem, that the building was built much later, or, it only least

the year the church was

conserved, in the 18th century, I think it was.

As I understand, all the part of Chester, from the main street, and down

to river, used to be

a Viking-district.

I was wondering, on some of the half timbered houses, I saw some symbols

that looked a bit

like what we call 'firkløver', that's four-cleaver, I think, in English,

could these symbols have

been from Norway, or are they English, since I heard that these black and

white half-timbered

houses are 'Tudor-style', so I guess that the Vikings, in Chester, would

have other types of

buildings, that was there, before the Tudor-style buildings,contemporary

with the St. Olave's

Church?

Sorry that I'm asking a lot of questions, I understand if you haven't got

the time to answer any

of these questions.

I just coincidentaly notices this church, when I was in Chester, and

thought it was fun, to see

place-names, and buildings, named after a Norwegian king, that we learned

about at school,

in Norway.

And at school, in Norway, we, as far as I remember, only learned

about that York, or 'Jorvik',

like the Vikings called the town or city, was a Norwegian Viking-town or

city.

But we didn't learn about, that there were viking setlements, in

Cheshire and Merseyside.

So I wasn't aware of, that there was Viking-buildings, in Chester,

when I went there, so I was

a bit surprised to see the church, and read about it on the internet, so

that was very fun.

I thought that maybe this church, could be one of the few buildings etc,.

that remained,

after the Vikings, that had to leave Ireland.

In Norway, we learn at school, that Vikings founded Dublin etc., but

we don't learn that

they went to England, after they lost control in Ireland, so this was fun

to learn.

So sorry again that I'm asking a lot of questions, and thanks in

advance, if you have the

time to explain about any of the questions which I've ask!

Yours sincerely,

Erik Ribsskog

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment

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University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

20. juli 2009

Her er noe e-post korrespondanse, om hvor vikingene, som slo seg ned i England, stammet fra, i de forskjellige engelske fylkene. (In Norwegian)

Google Mail – Re: [Ainscough Family History-Mawdesley] New comment on "Olsok" Wirral-Chester Viking Churches Heritage Wa….

Erik Ribsskog

<eribsskog@gmail.com>

Re: [Ainscough Family History-Mawdesley] New comment on "Olsok" Wirral-Chester Viking Churches Heritage Wa….

Erik Ribsskog

<eribsskog@gmail.com>

Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 10:57 PM

To:

barbara ainscough <barbaraainscough@mac.com>

Hi,

thanks very much for your reply.

I'm from Norway, so I know that if your name, is derived from Aykescogh, then this is very easy

for me to understand, its oak-forest.

Eike-skog, in modern Norwegian, but Norwegian letters are pronaunced differently, so Eikeskog,

said in Norwegian, would sound the same, as Aykescogh, in English.

So I'm sure it means Oak-forest.

My own name, Ribsskog, also has 'skog' in it, meaning forest.

My name, in Norwegian, sounds like red-currant forest. 'Rips', in Norwegian, is red-currant, and

the first part of my lastname is 'Ribs'.

And those words are prounaunced the same.

But this name, Ribsskog, is from Trøndelag, or the county of the Trond-tribe, quite far north in Norway.

And it was first written as 'Resskog', and 'Res', means, I've read, a place, where one drag the row-boats

over, on land, in stead of rowing around a (quite small, I think) peninsula.

And then it was changed, to Ribsskog, for some reason.

And this family-name, that really is from my mothers fathers family, since my mother divorced my

father, and changed my last-name from Olsen, (meaning son of Ole (short for Olave(!), I think)), in the 70's.

This familiy, with this name, 'Ribsskog', they have a lot of conflicts, I've understood, and I wrote to some

distant relatives, with this name, from Trøndelag, I think, and they didn't answer back, when I wrote,

about that they changed the name, up there, from 'Resskog', to 'Ribsskog'.

Now it sounds more Danish, since I think Danes say 'Ribs', for red-currant, in stead of the Norwegian 'Rips'.

At least it sounds like Danish name now, so maybe someone in the Ribsskog-familiy, was a bit snobish,

because the elite in Oslo, used to talk almost Danish, and probably used to have some Danish-sounding

names, since the elite, in Oslo, used to be, clerks etc., for the Kings of Denmark, who just to rule Norway,

for 400 years.

So people from the most snobish parts of Oslo, have been known, until this day, to speak in a way that

almost resembles old-fashion Danish, from the time of the union, between Norway and Denmark.

Even if some dialects, in Denmark, Jutish, I think, has changed towards German I think, since the time

of this union, so now, Danish kan be almost impossible to understand, sometimes, to Norwegians,

even the 'snobs', who speaks almost old-fashioned Danish, since modern Danish, often now, these

days, has a bit un-clear pronounciation.

So that's how this is.

I sent an e-mail to the professor, at the University of Nottingham, that you gave me the e-mail address to.

I'll see if I can find the link.

Sorry that I went on about the etnology of my lastname, so much!

And thanks very much for the link, I'll read more about the Tudors later.

I read about the black and white framed houses, on Wikipedia, and, I also saw, that they had almost similar

houses, in Denmark, to the Tudor-styled, in England.

But I guess this must be a very English style.

But I read that Tudor, came from Patagenan, or something, in France, so maybe it's really a French

arcitectural style(?)

It's a bit diffucult for me, to orientate, so well, in the UK, since there have been so many people, living here,

Picts, Skyts, Celts, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings, Normans, etc, etc, (and Norwegians!).

So to say where this and this style, was from, is a bit tricky, I guess.

I mean the Normans, where really Danes, that had lived in France, for about 100 years perhaps.

Where they Danes, French or Norman?

If you are from Norway, I think it's probably best to not try to dig to deep into this things.

I'll see if I can manage not to do this.

We'll see.

Best regards,

Erik Ribsskog

PS.

Here is the link to the e-mail, that I sent the professor, at the University of Nottingham, even if I can see, that I wrote Newcaslte, it seems, in my last comment.

This reminds me of when I posted on the British Expat-forum, and I had a back-up, where it said, I had wrote 'Norse'.

But then someone at the British Ex-pat message-board moderators-crew, had been having fun, and changed 'Norse'

to 'Nurse', and I don't think they can blame this, on it being derived, or on etnology.

But anyway, I'll see if I can find the link.

Here it is:

http://johncons-mirror.blogspot.com/2009/07/jeg-matte-nesten-sende-en-e-post-til.html

PS 2.

And what's the reason, for this change, in communication-method, from comments on a Blogger-blog, to e-mail., btw, if it's ok to ask about this in Newcastle or Nottingham, or Lancashire, I guess it was?

Well perhaps the Vikings in Lancashire, originated, from Scandinavia, where as the Vikings on the Wirral, where from

Ireland, people who had to move from there, at least I've read that earlier, that Vikings setlements on the Wirral, where

Norwegians who had to move from Ireland, after losing control there.

Sorry of all the post-scripts, a bit late here now I guess!

On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 9:11 PM, barbara ainscough <barbaraainscough@mac.com> wrote:

Hi Eric

there is so much history involved in what you write…..York was a text book Viking settlement as you know – many viking artefacts have been found here. Prof. harding has carried out much research and the West including Merseyside has definite Viking origins too- perhaps coming over from Ireland? or maybe primary settlements?

My name is Ainscough we think derived from Aykescogh – Nordic origins meaning meadow, tree, Ask, Oak forest?? This name originates in Lancashire.

For more about Tudor houses see here:

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/Homework/houses/tudor.htm

Good luck!

B

On 19 Jul 2009, at 18:17, johncons wrote:

johncons has left a new comment on your post ""Olsok" Wirral-Chester Viking Churches Heritage Wa…":

Hi,

thanks very much for the answer, I'll e-mail Professor Harding at the University of Newcastle.

I read up a bit on the internet, about the churches, (which I perhaps should have done more, before I wrote the last comment), and I read that there also is a St. Olave's Church and Parish, in York.

Since York was a Viking-town, or City, even if it was also Roman and Norman and Anglo-Saxon probably also I guess, for all that I know.

At school in Norway, we learn about that York has been a Norwegian Viking-town or city, with the name of 'Jorvik', but we don't hear about that there have been Viking-settlements around in the Wirral and other places around the Mersey, so this was a bit new information to me.

I read that the church in Chester, was built by Norwegian refugees from Dublin, after the Vikings lost control in Ireland, (which I guess is what the march is about), so I thought that the St. Olave's Church, in Chester, probably is one of the few things, that remains, of arcitecture etc., from the Vikings who lived in Ireland.

(Or I guess there could be something in Ireland, that we neighter was thought in school).

But I saw in Chester, that the Roman and Norman buildings, had signs explaining about the buildings etc., but I don't the St. Olave's Church had a similar sign.

And now I read on the internet, today, that the church was being used as a cinema.

But perhaps there aren't any people left, from the Norse comunity, in Chester, that remember that they had Viking ancestors, so noone wants to put up signs etc.

I think, if this church had been in Norway, they would probably made it to a museum or something.

At least they would have put up a sign, I guess.

But I'll contact the professor about this, and try not to write so much about what I think.

I just thought it was fun, really, to se that there where places in Chester named after a Norwegian king, that we learn about in school, in Norway, so that I thought was fun.

I'll contact the professor, and I'll try to remember to update my comment again, when I get a reply!

Thank you very much for answering my questions, I'll read up about Tudor, thanks very much for explaining about the timber framed houses!

Sincerely,

Erik Ribsskog

Publish this comment.

Reject this comment.

Moderate comments for this blog.

Posted by johncons to Ainscough Family History-Mawdesley at 6:17 PM

PS.

Nå leste jeg den linken, som var for noe barne- eller ungdomsskole vel, i England, som hun dama skrev, i e-posten sin.

Og det viste seg, at Tudor, det var de, med Henry VIII vel, som gjorde England protestantisk.

Så da fulgte vel England etter Tyskland og Nederland og Norden da, og ble protestantisk.

Og de kaller også Normannerne, for Vikinger.

Så da kan man vel kanskje ikke kalle dem franske.

Så da får man vel gå ut fra, at England nok er i Nord-Europa da, og ikke i Sør-Europa, som Frankrike vel for eksempel er, siden England jo er protestantisk.

Irland er jo katolsk, men Irland har vel mer med Storbritannia å gjøre, enn med Frankrike og Spania osv.

Men Irland er katolsk, så må man kanskje si, at Irland er i Sør-Europa, mens England, Wales og Skottland, er i Nord-Europa.

Noe sånt.

Så sånn er nok dette.

Med vennlig hilsen

Erik Ribsskog

20. juli 2009

Jeg måtte nesten skrive en e-post til han professoren ved universitetet i Nottingham, siden jeg ble rådet til dette. (In Norwegian)

Google Mail – St. Olave's Church in Chester

Erik Ribsskog

<eribsskog@gmail.com>

St. Olave’s Church in Chester

Erik Ribsskog

<eribsskog@gmail.com>

Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 7:24 PM

To:

Steve.Harding@nottingham.ac.uk

Hi,

I'm from Norway, but I live in Liverpool, and the other day, I was in Chester, and I coinsidentily

stubled upon, the St. Olave's Church, since I thought I had to see a bit of the other towns and

cities, in the North-West, and not only Liverpool.

I took some pictures of the church, and posted on my blog.

From the 'sign' there, it could seem like the church was from the 18th century, so much was

my surprice, when I searched on the internet, and found, that the chuch was almost a thousand

years old, built by Norwegian Vikings who were refugees from Dublin, since they lost control there,

it seems to me, after reading on the internet about this.

I read on a blog called 'Ainscough Family History', which I found throug Google, about the 'Viking

march', between the Wirral and Chester.

So I wrote a comment on that blog, with questions about the St. Olave's Church, and was adviced

to contact you.

I was just wondering if the church is listed, since I don't think we have that old viking stone-

buildings in Norway.

We have 'stav'-churches, in three, but I don't think we have any stone-buildings, that are this old.

So, I was just curious about this.

I also wondered if there had been conflicts between the St. Olave's Parish and the St. Michaels

Parish, since on one building, 'Nine Houses', the borded between the parishes, was written on

the buildings facade.

And, I was also wondering, why it isn't a plaque there, explaining about, that the church is almost

a thousand years old, built by Vikings from Ireland, because the plaque that's there now, makes

it almost seem, that the building was built much later, or, it only least the year the church was

conserved, in the 18th century, I think it was.

As I understand, all the part of Chester, from the main street, and down to river, used to be

a Viking-district.

I was wondering, on some of the half timbered houses, I saw some symbols that looked a bit

like what we call 'firkløver', that's four-cleaver, I think, in English, could these symbols have

been from Norway, or are they English, since I heard that these black and white half-timbered

houses are 'Tudor-style', so I guess that the Vikings, in Chester, would have other types of

buildings, that was there, before the Tudor-style buildings,contemporary with the St. Olave's

Church?

Sorry that I'm asking a lot of questions, I understand if you haven't got the time to answer any

of these questions.

I just coincidentaly notices this church, when I was in Chester, and thought it was fun, to see

place-names, and buildings, named after a Norwegian king, that we learned about at school,

in Norway.

And at school, in Norway, we, as far as I remember, only learned about that York, or 'Jorvik',

like the Vikings called the town or city, was a Norwegian Viking-town or city.

But we didn't learn about, that there were viking setlements, in Cheshire and Merseyside.

So I wasn't aware of, that there was Viking-buildings, in Chester, when I went there, so I was

a bit surprised to see the church, and read about it on the internet, so that was very fun.

I thought that maybe this church, could be one of the few buildings etc,. that remained,

after the Vikings, that had to leave Ireland.

In Norway, we learn at school, that Vikings founded Dublin etc., but we don't learn that

they went to England, after they lost control in Ireland, so this was fun to learn.

So sorry again that I'm asking a lot of questions, and thanks in advance, if you have the

time to explain about any of the questions which I've ask!

Yours sincerely,

Erik Ribsskog

19. juli 2009

Jeg fant en engelsk blogg, da jeg søkte om kirken i Chester. Og det viste seg, at de morsomme svarte og hvite husene der er i noe som heter Tudor-stil

johncons said…
Hi,

I’m from Norway, but I live in Liverpool.

Yesterday, I was in Chester, to have a look at the town, or city I think it is.

Since I think I should also visit some other places here, than just Liverpool.

And then suddently I stumbled upon St. Olave’s Church, and that was fun.

I saw the sign for the street, St. Olave Street, and understood it was the saint we call ‘Olav den hellige’, Olav the holy, in Norway.

In Norway, we have some wooden churches, ‘stavkirker’, from the viking-age.

But I wasn’t aware of, that in Chester there is a church built by vikings, so this was very surprising, to me, I didn’t know that there existed stone-buildings like this, from the Vikings.

There was a sign there, saying that the church was built on, in the 18th century, that it was restaured?

I was wondering if you know if this building, when it was conserved, in the 18th century was built in the same way, as it used to be?

I saw that the parishes, between St. Olave’s and St. Michael’s were quite strict defined, since on a building, called ‘the nine houses’, or something, the border between the parishes, was marked, on the fasade of the building.

So was there like a conflict there, between the ‘Viking’ parish, and the St Michael’s Church parish?

The people living in the Viking part of town, must have been quite poor then, since the parish was joined with the neighbour parish.

The tradition with the black and white timber-buildings, that one see, in Chester, and also in other towns in Britain, on pubs etc., where is this tradition from.

I guess that’s typically British then, is it from the Normans or something?

Sorry if I’m asking a lot of questions, I just thought it was fun that a Viking-church in stone, existed, to this date.

Is the building listed, or graded, or what the right term is, and why haven’t it got a proper sign on it, that says its from the Viking-age, because from the only sign I saw, it looked like it was from the 18th century, but that was really when it was conserved, I understood, when I later searched about the church on the internet.

I took some pictures in Chester, so I can add a link, so it’s possible to understand what I meant with the sign, or plate.

Sorry that I ask so many questions, by the way, I just thought it was very fun, to see that a church like this, existed, from the Vikings, I wasn’t aware of that.

Thanks in advance for any answers to all the questions!

Sincerely,

Erik Ribsskog

PS.

Here is the link I mentioned, with the pictures of the church etc., from Chester:

https://johncons-blogg.net/2009/07/fler-bilder-fra-chester-mm-in-norwegian.html

6:37 AM

boobelle said…
Hi Eric
Im afraid I am no expert on these churches or Chester – try emailing Professor Stephen Harding (Steve.Harding@nottingham.ac.uk) at Nottingham University, the content of that blog post was from him….the black & white timber framed buildings though are from the Tudor times in England, not Viking! Im very interested in what you find out about the churches – please share…
B

19. juli 2009
Fler bilder fra Chester mm. (In Norwegian)

PS.

Det har visst bodd en norsk koloni, i Chester, som drev handelsforbindelse med Irland, som på den tiden var under norske vikingers styre.

De bygget St. Olave’s Church, (oppkalt etter Olav den hellige), som det er bilde av over, som ligger i St. Olave’s Street, på 1000-tallet, mener jeg det stod.

Jeg så også, at på noen av de svarte og hvite trebygningene, som det var mange av, i Chester, så var det firkløver-mønster, på noen av bygningene, som lå i nærheten av St. Olave’s Church, så jeg lurte på om det kunne være noe symbol fra Norge, siden jo firkløver er et kjent symbol i Norge(?)

Men det kan jo være noe annet og.

Her er mer om St. Olave’s Church:

St. Olave’s Church is a charming small sandstone building, standing high above the pavement- a last reminder of the old Row. St. Olave Haraldson was an 11th century king of Norway who helped to establish Christianity in his country. He died in 1030. The church was founded soon afterwards to serve a community of traders from the Norse settlement of Dublin who made this area, situated just outside the line of the Roman wall, their home. The church and its parish were always the smallest and poorest in the city and in 1841 the building was closed and the parish united with that of neighbouring St. Michael’s. In 1858-9, Chester architect James Harrison restored the ancient structure to serve as the parochial Sunday school. Since then, it has served in a number of purposes, including aduly education centre, gallery and sale room. A few years ago, however, it was acquired by a Christian group and serves once again, under the name the Chester Revival Centre, in its 1,000-year-old role as a place of worship.

http://www.chesterwalls.info/bridgegate2.html#olave

PS 2.

Så det norske kvarteret i Chester, var visst ganske fattige, stod det ovenfor.

Men det var hyggelig at de restaurerte denne kirken, i Chester, på 1700-tallet.

Så den ser kanskje ut som den gjorde på 1000-tallet enda(?)

Den ser jo ikke akkurat så velholdt ut nå da, men den kunne vel sett værre ut og.

Det var nok et fattig kvarter, kunne man se på at gaten den kirken ligger i, var ganske trang, og husene hadde lave dører.

Innerst i St. Olave’s Street, så hadde en amerikansk kirke, slått seg ned.

Så de religiøse, dro altså til Amerika, for de fikk ikke lov å praktisere sin religion, i England, på 1700-tallet osv.

Hva var det som gjorde at de ikke fikk lov til dette?

Det var ikke fordi at de var slemme mot Benjamin-stammen, altså de norske f.eks., som jeg har skrevet om på bloggen, som kanskje har Hams forbannelse, eller hva det kan være?

Men nå returnerer altså alle disse ‘rare’ sektene, til Europa, kan det virke som.

Så nå får de lov å plage Benjamin-stammen ifred nå da(?)

Er dette som foregår?

Hva vet jeg.

Noe er det ihvertfall.

Og jeg leste om Olav den hellige, at han var hos normannerne han, i Frankrike, og lot seg døpe i Rouen.

(Oppkalt etter Gange-Rolf, altså oppkalt etter Rolf og ikke etter gange.

Det samme byen hvor Jean de Arc, tror jeg det var, ble brent på bålet, for hekserier vel.

Noe sånt.

Men men).

Så dro Olav den Hellige, til London, og hjalp angel-sakserne, mot danskene der.

Det mest naturlige, var vel at han skulle ha hjulpet de danske vikingene(?)

Men det var kanskje fordi at han ble kristen da, at han hjalp angel-sakserne, istedet?

Hvem vet.

Så dro han tilbake til Norge, og slo de hedenske stammen i Hedmark osv.

Hede betyr ‘ukultivert land’, leste jeg.

Og la under seg Norge, omtrent som hans forfar Harald Hårfagre hadde gjort da.

Og kristnet Norge.

Men jeg lurer på om dette var noe plott mot Benjamin-stammen i Norge?

Er det derfor denne muligens ‘anti-Benjamin/norrøne’, amerikanske sekten, har valgt seg tilhold i et hus, med adresse St. Olave’s Street, fordi de syntes det var artig, med det her plottet?

Det sies forresten om Olav den Hellige, at han ble helgenforklart, fordi hans hår og negler, hadde fortsatt å vokse etter hans død.

Det fant de ut, da de åpnet graven, seinere.

Men kan det ha vært noe ‘lurings’ her?

Kan det vært en levende person som ble gravlagt?

Også har han ligget der halvdød, også har neglene og håret vokst?

Hvem vet.

Men det er mye rart.

Det her var bare noe jeg kom på.

Noe rart var det nok ihvertfall, med Olav den Hellige, vil jeg tippe.

Så sånn er det.

Med vennlig hilsen

Erik Ribsskog

18. juli 2009