Hi,

 

I'm not sure if I'm sending this to the right e-mail address, but I'm trying to forward

this e-mail once more, since I can't see that I've recieved an answer to it yet.

Sorry if I'm sending it to the wrong address!

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Erik Ribsskog

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: Erik Ribsskog <eribsskog@gmail.com>

Date: Aug 14, 2007 4:04 PM
Subject: Problems with Censorship
To: rohan@indexoncensorship.org

 

Hi,

 

I have some problems regarding censorship on the Daily Post Message-board that I'm looking

for advice on how to deal with.

 

I think censorship issues are important issues, and also I also think that due to the nature of the

problems that the post deals with, it's regarding problems at the Counil-run gym in Victoria St.

in Liverpool. I think these problems also concerns the other users of the gym, and the people who

are paying tax to the Council.

 

Yet, I find that these issues are being censored on the Daily Post Message Board (They deleted

the thread about these problems, and banned my user-name), without giving any information to me,

on e-mail or otherwise, regarding why they did this.

 

And it doesn't seem to me that the Council are willing to discuss these problems in public.

 

I posted about the problems on the message-board, and explained that I thought the Council

then should comment on these problems in public.

 

But the Council didn't want to answer in public, they wrote that they didn't understand what

I meant in my e-mail (the e-mail in which I explained about this), and refused to make a

public answer.

 

I've also contacted the Local Government Ombudsman regarding this, but they have so far

just said that they think the Council should have had more time to deal with the complaint.

Even if it says on the Liverpool City Council website, that according to the Council complaint-

procedure, the Council should deal with complaints within two weeks.

 

Yet, when I sent this matter to the Ombudsman, I had waited almost four weeks without

getting any reply from the Council, yet the ombudsman says that they think the Council

should have had more time to answer the complaint.

 

And the next day, I find that the posts regarding these problems are deleted from the Daily

Post's message-board, without any explanation being given to me regarding the reason for

them deleting the posts.

 

My concern is that I think these issues (about the problems at the Council-gym), also concerns

the other users of the gym, and the people who are paying tax to the council.

Thats why I'm contacting you, because I hoped it would be possible for you to give me some

advice regarding how I should go forward to bring up these issues in public, without this being

stopped with the help of censorship.

 

So I hope very much that it would be possible for you to help me with advice regarding this,

since I'm not used to dealing with issues like these.

 

I'm going to paste the thread from this message-board at the end of this e-mail, and I'm also

going to forward you the e-mail from the Council from yesterday, where they say that they

don't understand what I mean in my 'lenghty' e-mail from Friday, and that they don't intend

to deal with these problems, the way I suggested, in public. (Since I think these are problems

that concerns the other users of the gym and also the people paying their council-tax).

 

Hope that this is alright!

 

Yours sincerely,

Erik Ribsskog

 

 

 

Problems at the Council-run Lifestyles gym in Victoria St.

  
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johncons

 

Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2

 Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:26 am    Post subject: Problems at the Council-run Lifestyles gym in Victoria St.   

——————————————————————————–
 
Hi,

I'm a Norwegian that has been living in this town for a couple of years.

I've written a complaint about some problems at the Lifestyles gym in Victoria Street, which I have been sending to the Duty Officer at the gym, and also forwarded to two other representatives working for the Council.

It's almost two weeks since I sent the complaint now, but I still haven't recieved any answer.

So I thought that since this is a council-run gym, then it should be ok to discuss these things here. Since I reckon that the things that are going on at the council-run gym also concerns the other users of the gym, and also the people who are paying tax to the council:

from Erik Ribsskog <eribsskog@gmail.com> hide details Jul 12

to Richard.Little@liverpool.gov.uk
cc
"Lennon, Linda" < linda.lennon@liverpool.gov.uk >,

"Southern, Lesley" <Lesley.Southern@liverpool.gov.uk>
date Jul 12, 2007 5:06 AM

subject Complaint
mailed-by gmail.com

Images are not displayed.

Display images below – Always display images from eribsskog@gmail.com

Hi,

I'm refering to phone-call last week (4/7). I know I said I'd send this e-mail no
later than Wednesday, but I didn't get to start on it untill late on Wednesday,

so it's probably going to be Thursday untill I get to actually send the e-mail,
so sorry about that!

Problems with washing women/girls in the mens changing-room during opening hours:

The first thing I wondered about, was regarding the problems described in
the e-mail I sent to Linda Lennon on 8/6, about the washing girl/women in

the mens changing-room.

I'll copy the text from that e-mail into this e-mail, since I have some questions
regarding that episode:

to linda.lennon@liverpool.gov.uk

date Jun 8, 2007 10:58 PM
subject Fwd: Statement
mailed-by gmail.com

Hi,

I just got back from the gym, it closed at 9 pm.

I just had to eat a bit and relax a bit after the work-out, or else I would have sent the
email at once.

Because what I'm wondering about with the gym, is:

Is it really right that there should be female washing-staf in the mens wardrobe
at 8.45 pm, when the gym closes at 9pm?

This happened again today, and it has also happened once before.

I used to workout a bit when I lived in Oslo and Sunderland as well, but they never
used to start washing the wardrobe until after the closing hours.

So I think that since the gym is run by the Council, I think that they shouldn't
have the washing-routines that includes female staff starting to wash in the

mens wardrobe as early as 8.45 pm.

I think they should wait until after closing-hours to wash the mens wardrobe,
and that if they have to wash, then they could maybe instead wash the machines

in the gym or something else before the gym is closed.

When I went into the mens wardrobe at 8.45 pm then there was a female washing
staff washing there, about 40 years maybe with dark hair.

I think she was talking with a colleague in there, it was probably the other washing-
woman.

I was working out on the tread-mill by the reception untill a bit before 8.45 pm, and
then I saw the washing-staff walking around in the reception-area at around 8.40 pm.

And one of the washing-staff looked quite young, maybe 16-17 years.

I think it must have been her that the washing-woman with dark hair spoke with in
the mens wardrobe at 8.45.

I don't think there should be that young female washing staff in the mens wardrobe
at 8.45, when the gym closes at 9.00pm.

It has happened once earlier as well that there were female washing staff in the
mens wardrobe at around 8.45, and I just think that this isnt right.

I think that both the staff in the gym and the washing staff should understand by
themselves that the female washing staff shouldnt start to wash in the mens

wardrobe untill after the closing hours at 9 pm, so thats why I havent complained
about this to the staff in the gym or the washing staff.

I think that it should be unecessary for me to tell this to them, I think they should
have understood this by themselves.

And Im not really sure whos in charge there in the evenings eighter.

There has also been other incidents at the gym that I have thought to complain
about, but I havent untill now.

But with the washing-staff in the mens wardrobe again today at 8.45 pm, was
a bit like the final drop, so since Im not really sure whos in charge there in the

evening I thought that I could send you an email about this.

And also since one of the washing women was so young, it makes me a bit
worried about whats going on in the gym, when they put a washing woman/

girl that looked like she was maybe 16 or 17 in the mens wardrobe at 8.45pm,
so therefore I thought I should really just write the email now, because that this
is a bit unacceptable for a gym thats run by the Council.

I know its a bit late to send emails at this hour, but it thought that since I think
that this way of organising the washing-routines in the gym is a bit unaceptable,

I thought that if I sent the email about this right after I got back from the gym,
then there would be less possibilites that eg. someone could say that I must have
mistaken the time etc, since now its just a quite short time since I left the gym,

so I reckoned that its best to send it right away, while I still have the details at
mind so to speak.

So I hope that this is alright!

Sorry that I send the email this late.

Regards,

Erik Ribsskog
– Show quoted text –

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: Erik Ribsskog < eribsskog@gmail.com>

Date: Jun 8, 2007 3:45 PM
Subject: Statement
To: linda.lennon@liverpool.gov.uk

Hi,

I refer to the phone-call earlier today, and send the statement from
the bank about the duplicate payment with the direct-debit.

Pleare just contact me if there is anything else I should have remembered.

Hope that this is alright!

Regards,

Erik Ribsskog

 

So my questions regarding this is:

1. How come that there are washing women/girls in the mens changing-room at 8.45 pm,
when the gym closes at 9 pm?

2. Is the gym going to change its washing-routine, so that the washing women/girls dont
start to wash the mens changing-room untill after the gym is closed. (Because like I explained

in the e-mail to Linda Lennon, this with the washing women in the mens changing-room has
also happened earlier at the Millenium gym, but I've never seen it in other gyms).

Problems with direct-debit processing errors/duplicate payments:

Also, I have been in contact with Lesley Southern, about some problems regarding processing
errors/duplicate direct debits from the gym.

I explained to him that I would also bring up some the issues regarding this with you, so I think
its alright if I also copy the contents of that e-mail:

 

from Erik Ribsskog <eribsskog@gmail.com> hide details Jul 10 (2 days ago)

to "Southern, Lesley" < Lesley.Southern@liverpool.gov.uk >
date Jul 10, 2007 6:18 PM

subject Re: Earlier e-mails
mailed-by gmail.com

Hi,

thank you very much for your answer.

I think it was very fine that you had the time to answer me, and I also think that it was very
fine that you have taken off my arrears due to the amount of time/inconvinience I have had

due to this.

But since there were still some things I was wondering about, I thought I could try to send
you an enquiery about this, to try to maybe found out about this.

I've written an explanation below, as comments on your e-mail, since I thought it was easier
to explain/answer this way.

To summarize my questions:

1. Shouldn't the gym have asked me first if they wanted to withdraw an extra payment (that they
had no mandate for) from my account in June?

2. How come that there were still two payment-requests from the gym waiting to be withdrawn
from my account on 27/6, when firstly, the gym only have a mandate to withdraw one monthly

payment from my account. Secondly, I had agreed with the staff at the gym, that I would pay the
arrears when I recieved the swith-bonus from the bank. And thirdly, I had sent Linda Lennon,
Administration Manager at the Council an e-mail about this problem on 8/6, with a copy of the

statement from the bank, showing that there was a problem with the gym charging me duplicate
payments from my account for the month of June?

3. How come that the gym still wanted to withdraw a (duplicate) payment from my account for the
month of July, when the gym was closed for refurbishment for six weeks from 25/6?

I'm also going to contact the Duty Officer at the gym regarding why the gyms members weren't
informed about the six weeks closure of the gym and more. So it might be that I'll also ask him

about some of the same questions. (Like about why the gym still wanted to charge me even
if they were going to be closed etc.)

I hope you have the time to answer me about this questions, since I thought some of these things
were a bit strange, so it would be nice to be informed about this.

So I hope that you bear over with me if I'm asking many questions!

Thank you very much in advance!

Yours sincerely,

Erik Ribsskog

 

 

On 7/3/07, Southern, Lesley <Lesley.Southern@liverpool.gov.uk > wrote:

Erik

Your enquiry regarding your direct debit payments has been passed onto myself for further investigation.

Unfortunately we cannot refund a payment to a member that has outstanding arrears, this is for audit purposes as we are required to provide details of all miscellaneous payments made to our members.

The action we have taken to date is to take your 1 month overpayment as your cancellation fee (which is normally 2 months) and we have taken your arrears off your membership record for the inconvenience caused as a result of the error.

– Regarding the overpayment, it wasn't actually an overpayment, because when the bank saw that it had been a
process error/duplicate payment from the gym, then they transferred the duplicate payment back as a

'interbranch payment' on 6/6.

(Secondly, I think that I shouldn't recieve a cancellation fee, when the gym suddently closes for 6 weeks
for refurbishment. I think that then the gym should have first sent its members a letter about this, put

up a poster at the gym about this, and also not charged its members for the month that they are closed,
but I have to contact the Duty Officer at the gym about something else, so I'll bring this up with him.)

I have checked the Direct Debit report and it seems that the overpayment dates back to a missed January payment which has been allocated to your account on 30 th May. I will need to speak to our Direct Debit team to determine why a payment for January has been included in June's Direct Debit report.

I've been speaking with the staff (including the Manager) at the gym several times about the arrears, and we agreed that I would
pay the arrears later, when I recieved some money I was expecting (a switch-bonus from the bank).

This was agreed with Craig at the gym, when we set up the direct-debit agreement in May.

I spoke with Craig about this on 1/6 as well, since I hadn't recieved the switch-bonus yet, and then I was informed
that the arrear was £70.50, and we agreed that I would pay this when I recieved the money from the bank.

So my point is, that they should have told me first if they wanted to withdraw an extra payment from my account
on 1/6, so that I could have planned this in advance.

Also, this (RBS) bank account was set up in May, so I don't really understand how a missed direct-debit
payment to my old (Barclays) account in Januray, could suddently appear on my RBS-account in June?

It seems a bit strange to me that this could happen, when I also had agreed several times with the staff
at the gym (in the month of March and then monthly), that I would pay the running bills, and that I'd pay the

arrears when I recieved the switch-bonus from RBS.

Also I had been told by the staff at the gym, that there was no hurry at all with the arrears, as long as I
paid the running bills.

– Also the bank told me when I called them in the beginning of June, that the gym wasn't allowed to
withdraw more than one payment a month from my account, since they only had one mandate.

– Also, when I called the gym on 26/6, to ask if they were open on 26/6, (since they were closed for
no apparent reason on 25/6), then I was told that the gym was closed for refurbishment for six weeks.

I then thought that it wasn't right that the gym should charge me for the month of July, when they were
closed. (I also thought they should have informed the members about the six weeks closure). So due

to this, I called my bank (the RBS customer-support line) on 27/6 to cancel the direct-debit.

I was then told that there were still two direct-debits from the gym on my account, both with the same,
reference-number (LIFE 800 1561).

– So I was wondering, how come that there were still two payment-requests from the gym waiting to
be withdrawn on my account on 27/6, when firstly, the gym only have a mandate to withdraw one

monthly payment from my account. Secondly, I had agreed with the staff at the gym, that I would
pay the arrears when I recieved the swith-bonus from the bank, and thirdly, I had sent Linda Lennon,
Administration Manager at the Council an e-mail about this problem on 8/6, with a copy of the

statement from the bank, showing that there was a problem with the gym charging me duplicate
payments from my account?

 

Your account has now been set to expired and no payment was requested in July.

Well, there were actually two payments requested in July (see above

So my questions regarding this is:

3. Shouldn't the gym have asked me first if they wanted to withdraw an extra payment (that they
had no mandate for) from my account in June?

4. How come that there were still two payment-requests from the gym waiting to be withdrawn
from my account on 27/6, when firstly, the gym only have a mandate to withdraw one monthly

payment from my account. Secondly, I had agreed with the staff at the gym, that I would pay the
arrears when I recieved the swith-bonus from the bank. And thirdly, I had sent Linda Lennon,
Administration Manager at the Council an e-mail about this problem on 8/6, with a copy of the

statement from the bank, showing that there was a problem with the gym charging me duplicate
payments from my account for the month of June?

Problems around the closure of the gym for six weeks from 25/6 due to refurbishment:

5. How come that the gym still wanted to withdraw a (duplicate) payment from my account for the
month of July, when the gym was closed for refurbishment for six weeks from 25/6?

6. How come that there were no letters sent to the members of the gym regarding the closure
of the gym for six weeks from 25/6 due to refurbishment?

7. How come that there were no poster in the gym informing the users of the gym that the gym
would be closed for six weeks from 25/6 due to refurbishment?

8. How come that there was only a makeshift sign on the entrance-door to the millenium-
building saying 'gym closed', and nothing more when I went there to work out on the

evening on 25/6. (Shouldn't it have been a proper sign, with information about why the
gym was closed, how long the gym was closed for, and not just some makeshift
sign written with an ink-marker)?

9. How come that there were no information about the fact that the gym was closed, when
I went on the lifestyles website:

(www.liverpool.gov.uk/Leisure_and_culture/Sports/Leisure_Centres_and_Pools/Lifestyles_Millennium/index.asp )

on 26/6 (When the gym had been closed since 25/5)?

(I can see that it says that the gym is closed there now, but on 26/6, there was no information
about the gym being closed at all. I went there to see if it said anything on the website on 26/6,

since the gym was closed for no obvious reason on 25/6, but it didn't say anything about the gym
being closed on the website, so I noted down the phone-number to the gym, and called the gym,
and they told me that the gym was closed for six weeks due to refurbishment.)

10. How come that members of the gym were charged for the whole month of June, when the gym
was closed for refurbishment from 25/6? (Shouldn't the six days from 25/6 to 30/6 have been

deducted from the charge?).

Other problems at the gym:

Like I wrote in my e-mail to Linda Lennon on 8/6, there had also been other, earlier incidents at
the gym which I had thought to complain about.

But like I also wrote, it wasn't always easy to know who it was that was in charge there after the
manager had gone home, and him I only spoke with once, since I most often worked out in the

evening.

And that the incident with the washing girls/women in the mens changing room again within the
opening hours was the last drop, so to speak.

And then it was easier for me to complain, because then I had her e-mail address from before,
since I had sent her a copy of the statement from the bank, to document the problems with

the duplicate direct debit/processing error from the gym.

So then it was easier for me to complain.

I'm going to try explain a bit more about the earlier incidents:

Problems with locker:

On 26/4, it says in my note-book, I was at the gym.

I work with office-work, so I try to work out quite often, and I usually use different lockers at the
gym, depending on which locker of the lockers that are free etc.

And when one work out 3-5 days a week for some time, and you have a different locker each time,
then it could be that one forgets exactly which locker one uses this particular time.

And, since only about half of the key-rings with the keys for the lockers had tag-numbers on them,
this could be a bit confusing.

So when I was finished with the work-out, and I went to the area of the changing-room where my
locker was, then the locker wouldn't open.

Like I wrote, I use different lockers each time, depending on which lockers that are free, where in
the changing-room it is less crowded etc.

So it isn't that easy to be exactly sure if it is that particular locker, especially since the key-ring
to the locker (like about half of the other key-rings, i noticed later), lacked a number-tag on it,

to specify which locker it belonged to.

I usually dont keep things like my wallet etc. in the locker, since its a big gym, always many
people there, and I would get a lot of inconvienience if something happened to my wallet etc.,

so I didn't keep the most 'valuble' things in the locker.

I use to keep my note-book with my wallet, so I had my note-book still on me, and I thought it
was a bit embarresing going to the reception explaining that I coultn't find my locker, so I decided

to be 100% sure before I did that.

So, I just wrote down the numbers of all the lockers in my note-book, and then I checked each
and every locker, and crossed the number for that locker in my note-book.

I made sure to check each lock thoroughly.

So, when I had checked each lock in the changing-room, and the key didn't fit in any of them,
then I went to the reception to explain.

It was still quite embarresing, but at least now I had the note-book to show that I had tryed all
of the locks.

There were about 5 or 6 people sitting in the reception, and the woman in charge, told Neil to
help me with this.

I explained to Neil that maybe the smartest thing for me would be to return at closing-time,
when all the other users of the gym had gone home, then it would only be one locker left

to check.

I was holding my note-book still, so I wrote down that Neil started acting a bit like a sergeant
in the army, knocking his fist into the side of the enterance to the changing-room and screaming

/comanding: 'come here'.

I thought this behaviour was a bit peculiar, but I went after him into the changing-room, and then
he starting to ask if I had been having a few beers. (Since I couldnt remember the number for

the locker).

I asked him what his name was, and wrote it down.

Then I showed him that I had tryed all the lockers, and that noone worked, and that there wasnt
any number-tag on the key-chain for the locker.

He asked me which locker I thought it was, and I told him that I thought it was the number 156
one. (It says in my note-book).

So he asked me to give him the key, so that he could try the number 156 locker and the
surrounding lockers.

But he couldnt manage to open any of them, so he went to find the master-key.

This took a bit of time, but he returned and then opened the locker with the new key.

It was locker 156, and I showed him in my note-book that I had already tryed to open
locker 156 with the key, because I had crossed out that number in the note-book.

Neil said that 'the locks often get stuck.', I can see from my note-book.

I found a new locker (since I didnt have the key any longer to the 156 one), and Neil
reminded me to remember the key-number.

I told him that I thought that there should be key-tags on the key-rings for the lockers.

Also, the next time I went to the gym, the woman in charge reminded me that I should
remember the key-number, and then I told the woman in charge that I thought that

there should be key-tags on the key-rings. (But there still wasnt done anything
with this problem, and about half of the key-rings were still missing a key-tag
for the remainder of the time I was working out at the gym).

So my questions regarding this is:

11. How come there are so much problems with the locks getting stuck in the lockers?
I mean, surely the gym bought new lockers when they opened? And its the Millennium

building gym, so the building and the gym can't be that old? (Did someone buy used
lockers for the gym when it opened)?

12. How come the gym doesn't use oil in the locks for the lockers, if it, like Neil said,
is a problem with the 'locks often get stuck'?

13: And why didn't the gym put key-tags on the lockers, when about half of the key-
tags were missing, and I had spoken about this problem with both Neil and the woman

who was in charge there on the day this incident ocured, I think it was on 26/4?

Problems with the washing of the machines:

When I wrote the e-mail about the problem with the washing women/girls in the
mens changing-room in the opening hours, then it came to mind that maybe

the washing-should should rather wash the machines, and then wait untill
the gym has closed, before they washed the changing-rooms.

The reason I thought about this, is because I remembered an incident from when
I was working out, I think it must have been in April or May.

Then I was working out at the thread-mill, and this was I seem to remember hours
before closing-time.

There were a couple of washing-ladys there, even if it was still a few hours until
closing-time.

They were just walking around a bit, seemingly not certain on the routine.

But then one of the washing ladies started to wash the stepping-machine in front
of me. But what I thought was a bit strange, was that she only washed the tip of

one of the handles of the stepping machine, and then nothing else. This she did
twice with a few minuttes inbetween.

Other than that, I couldn't see that eighter she or her collegue washed any of the
other machines. (They looked a bit lost there, walking around with their buckets

while the gym was still quite crowded, since it was hours till closing-time.)

My question regarding this is:

14: Shouldn't the washing-staff put up a sign near the machines when they wash
them during the time of which the gym is open? Couldn't people get hurt if

they work out on machines that are slippery from being washed? I seem to
remember from other places I've been working etc., that yellow plastic signs
are being put on the floor etc., saying that one have to be careful since its

newly washed, so shouldn't the washing staff in the gym also do this when
they clean the machines within the opening hours?

Problems with staff:

Like I've written, there have been some incedents before that I have wondered
if I should complain about, but I'm not always sure whos in charge there, so

this makes it a bit more tricky to complain, and I've also had the problem
with the arrears on my membership, and the manager let me work out
there and pay the arrears later, so there was a threshold before I would

complain.

But I wrote down in my note-book a couple of things I reacted on anyway.

I was wondering a bit what was going on there, e.g. on 24/5 Craig and
a blond girl sits in the reception.

Only Craig logs in the members, even if there is a long queue. The girl
is only watching. (I think maybe she is his girlfriend, since I noticed

them sitting very close once when I wanted to log in).

So I was wondering, if there is a long queue, surely both of them could
log in the users of the gym, so that they wouldn't have to wait in a line,

like if some of the customers are there to sign up for a membership,
then still everyone have to wait in one line, even if there are more
staff at work.

So then I was wondering what is the girl doing there, if she cant log in
the customers, and is only sitting watching.

And I think she had been working there a while then, so I dont think
she was on training.

So this seemed a bit strange to me, so I thought I could mention it
while Im writing this e-mail anyway.

Also, I remember, that one Friday I was working out there, then they
annonced the closing of the gym like this:

'The gym will be closing in 60 minutes', 'The gym will be closing in
45 minutes', 'The gym will be closing in 30 minutes', 'The gym will

be closing in 15 minutes'.

I think it was the same girl, but it seemed like it was Craig that told
her to say it.

Normally they only say 'The gym will be closing in 20 minuttes', or
something like this, so I thought I could mention this as well, even

if its maybe not so important what they say on the calling-system
in the Friday evenings? Anyway, I thought I could mention it while
I was writing the e-mail anyway.

My question to this is:

15. How come the staff only sits watching while the customers are
standing in line?

16. Shouldn't the staff have name-tags, where it said name and title,
so that it would be easier for the users of the gym to know who to

speak with regarding different problems. (So that they know who
are in charge)?

(For instance, on the day when there were washing girls/women in
the mens changing room, and they must have been there from
around 8.40 pm. or earlier, because I went in there on 8.45 pm,

and then they were well into their routine it looked like, before I
turned and went home.

On that day (8/6), the staff that were working around closing-time,
was Neil, a young girl that wears high-healed shoes and blouse,
and a man around 40 years maybe that I think could maybe is the

girls father, because I saw him standing very close to the girl once.

I thought maybe the girl was in a kind of responsible position there,
since she wear office-clothes, but the guy in his forthies I reckon
also could be in charge there, since hes the oldest etc., and also

Neil I reckoned could have been in charge, since he has access
to the master-keys etc.

So its a bit embarrasing asking about whos in charge, because
you wouldn't want to offend anyone, with asking whos in charge,
and then its actually that person who is in charge.

I don't say that it is impossible for the customers of the gym to
find out whose in charge, but I thought that it could maybe add
to the general level of customer-service at the gym if the staff

was wearing name-tags.

I wrote down a note of who that was working that day, so that
I would know later, since I wrote the e-mail that day with the
complaint about the washing-staff in the chaning-room, so I

thought I'd write it down, in case it became an issue.)

17. Should they really anounce that the gym is closing in 60 minutes,
and that the gym is closing in 45 minutes etc.?

 

Problems with direct-debit agreement on 13/12/06:

While I was looking for some notes before I started writing this
e-mail now, I found a letter from the gym from 8/12/06.

I'll just write what it says:

'Dear Mr. Ribsskog,

RE: Lifestyles Membership No: LDD121346

As a valued Lifestyles member, I was surprised to find that your monthly
Lifestyles subscription of £23.50 due earlier this month has not been paid.

You may be aware of this already and have made payment at the
Lifestyles centre, if so, please accept my apologies.

If you have not paid these arrears, I would ask that you pay them at your
earliest convienience by contacting your nearest Lifestyles Centre. Your

membership account can be updated at any of the centres and you can
pay either by cash, cheque, credit or debit card.

Please contact Liverpool Direct on 0151 233 3007 for the number of your
nearest Lifestye centre.

I regret that until any arrears have been paid, standard admission
charges will apply and you will lose the benefits of your membership.

Yours feithfully

Steve Kneale

Business Development Manager'.

 

(I write quite fast, so I thought I could just write it down, so that it would be
easier to understand what I meant.)

There were some problems regarding me switching from a Barclays Cashcard
account to a Barclays Current-account at around the end of November/beginning

of December 2006.

The problem was that my pay from work was switched to the new current-account,
whereas the direct-debits remained connected to the old account.

I was in a busy period with work etc., so I didnt think about this problem before I
got a letter from the bank about it.

So I went to the bank, and transfered all my direct-debits from my old Barlays
cashcard account, and to my new Barclays current/visa account.

The clerk in the bank did this for me, it was a quite routine operation it seemed
to me.

Exept for the Lifestyles direct-debit for some reason.

This direct-debit had been canceled right away, in a way so that the clerk in the
bank couldnt transfer it to the new account.

And when I went to the gym on 13/12, I had to pay the charge for Decemeber at
the gym, and it wasn't possible for me to just switch the existing direct-debit

agreement from my old Barlays Cashcard account to my new Barclays Current
account, but I had to fill out a new form all over again to set up the new
direct debit agreement on my new account.

I accept that it was my fault with forgetting to transfer the direct-debit to the
new account (It was some comunication-problem at work, with me informing

work that I had got a new bank-account, but with work not giving me any
feedback on that they had changed my account information in the payment
system).

But because of the later problem with the direct debits now in June, I thought
I could ask a couple of questions regarding this as well, while I'm at it, so to

speak.

18: How come that the gym canceled my direct-debit between 1/12 and 8/12,
and sent me a letter on 8/12, where it said that I had to go to the gym and

pay in cash, when I had never had any payment problems with the gym before
this, and all the other direct-debits were possible to switch (for the clerk at
the bank to my new account), except the gyms direct-debit? Shouldn't the

gym have tryed to collect the payment from my account again 7-14 days
later, like the clerk in the bank told me that the other companies did?

19: Why did I have to write my signature on, and fill out a new form all over
again on 13/12, for a new direct-debit. Didn't the gym have all my information

from before, have one got to fill out and sign a new form just because one
gets a new account-number, when one are still using the same bank?

(The signature of the women I spoke with on the gym on 13/12/06, looks
like it says Probert as a last name by the way, in case that makes it

any easier to find out about this.

I remember I thought it was strange that I had to fill out the form all over
again, just because of the problem of the one payment due to the

problems with changing the direct-debits and my pay from work to
the new account, in a coordinated way.

Because it didn't seem to be a similiar problem with the other companies
that also had direct-debits on my account, so therefore I remember that

I thought that this was a bit strange.

And now, due to the other problems with the direct-debits again, now in
June, I thought I'd just ask about the earlier problems, since they came

to mind now.

also this:

How come I got a letter sent 8 days after the missed payment in December,
where as later, in January, February and March (with the new direct-debit set

up on 13/12), I didn't get a letter at all.

It went on for two or three months, it must have been, before someone reminded
me that there were arrears on my membership.

I was quite busy in this time-periode, even if I was unemployed, so I didn't
have so much money then, so I should maybe have spoken with the staff about

this myself, but I much problems with paying my rent etc., and I was glad to
have the oppertunity to work-out, since it was a bit stressing not having a
job, and it helped to work-out to relax from the stress.

And also, the staff gave different information to me regarding the arrears. The
girl wearing office-wear, and who worked on 8/6, for instance, told me on

one occation that it wasn't a hurry paying the arrears at all. (As long as I
paid the running bills, which I did).

And other members of staff, Craig for instance, told me that I had to pay the
arrears before a certain date, (I spoke with the manager and got an extension,

and later I agreed with Craig that I would pay the arrears when I got first the
loan I was promised from the bank, and later the switch-bonus I was promised
from the bank.)

So the questions regarding this:

20: How come in December I get a letter for not paying after 8 days, where as
in the new year, it goes in the region of two or three months without recieving

a letter or reminder from the staff, even if I worked out several times a week?

21: How come one member of the staff (the girl with the office-wear who worked
on 8/6), says that there is no hurry with the arrears, where as another member

of staff (Craig), says that I have to pay before this and this date? How is this
really supposed to be, according to the rules?

(I appriciate very much that I was allowed to work out at the gym even if I had
arrears, so it's not because I am ungrateful that I ask about these things. It's

just that due to the other problems, with the washing-women/girls in the changing
room, and the problems with the continuing processing errors and duplicate
payments with the direct debits.

And also due to the problems surrounding the unanounced closure of the gym
for six weeks due to refurbishment.

Due to these problems, I thought it would be best to mention all the other
problems while I was at it. Even if some of these problems aren't maybe

that serious in themselves, I anyway thought that they were worth bringing
up, because, I think, thay add to a general picture of things at the gym
being a bit out of hand, so due to this I'm a bit concerned about whats

really going on at the gym, and then I thought it would be best to mentioned
all the things that came to mind, because these things, even if it isn't clear
to me here and now that there for certain is a problem conected with them,

it could be a problem, so I thought it would be the most responsible thing
to do, to also add the latter part of the problems, the ones that are mentioned
under the title 'other problems'.

So even if it was the first five or ten questions that made me go to the step
of complaining. Even so, I hope you have the oppertunity to answer me about

the last part of the questions as well.

Sorry again that this e-mail got a bit delayed. I know I said I'd send it no latter
than Wednesday, but I reckon that as long as I send it before the office hours

on Thursday, then it hopefully should be ok.

I'll also forward this e-mail to Linda Lennon and Lesley Southern, since I've been
copying the e-mails I've sent to them earlier, in this e-mail now.

Hope that this is alright, and that you bear over with me if some of the last questions
wasn't as well stated as they should have been, due to time problems etc.

Hope that this is alright!

Yours sincerely,

Erik Ribsskog
 
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plaintalker
Novice member

Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 54

 Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:12 pm    Post subject:    

——————————————————————————–
 
I'd stay at home if I where you. 
 
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Moriarty
Ultra member

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 1083
Location: Maghull
 Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:17 pm    Post subject:    

——————————————————————————–
 
Or, go to a private Gym. You should know this Council is useless! Everything they touch turns to s**t!

 
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johncons

 

Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2

 Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:46 pm    Post subject:    

——————————————————————————–
 
On Sunday 5/8, I had a look at the Council website, about what it said about complaints. It said that the Council were supposed to deal with the complaint within two weeks. On Sunday, I had waited almost four weeks, and still hadn't recieved an answer to the complaint.

I reckoned that since the Council had breached the complaints-procedure, then the smartest thing would be to send the complaint to the Council Ombudsman, which I did.

Yesterday, I recieved an answer from the Ombudsman, that said something that they didn't think that the Council had had enough time
to answer the complaint, so they had sent it back to the Council.

I have been working quite a lot and also had send some other e-mails
so I haven't had time to look that closly at their letter yet.

Today, just an hour or two ago, I recieved an answer from the Council, which I answered right away.

When I wrote the answer, I also started to think about the letter from the
ombudsman, and I also sent them an e-mail, since I wonder a bit about

how the Council and the Ombudsman are viewing my complaint from the post above, in regards with the Council complaint procedure.

This seems a bit unclear to me, so if anyone could share any light on how this is supposed to be, then please feel free to coment on this.

Like I've mentioned earlier I think these issues also concerns the other users of the gym and also the people who are paying tax to the council, I think it should be alright to bring up these issues here.

So I'll update with the e-mails from today:

Erik Ribsskog <eribsskog@gmail.com> hide details 7:56 pm (0 minutes ago)

to "Kneale, Steve" < Steve.Kneale@liverpool.gov.uk >
date Aug 10, 2007 7:56 PM

subject Re: Lifestyles Liverpool complaint.
mailed-by gmail.com

Hi,

thank you very much for your answer.

Like I was writing in the complaint to the ombudsman, I think that the council should maybe
have answered the complaint in public, since I have brought this things up in public myself,

since these are things that concern the other users of the gym, and the people who are paying
tax to the council.

Also, it would have been very fine if it also was explained why I wasn't recieving any answer
from the Duty Officer, and also why it is that it isn't him who is answering the complaint.

Also, I was wondering if my complaint to the Duty Officer isn't being regarded as an official
complaint?

Also I think that all the points in the complaint should have been answered. Even if some of
the points are brought up in another e-mail, I'm explaining about this in the complaint, and

making it clear that I think it would have been fine to hear what the Duty Officer has to say
about this, aswell as hearing what Lesley Southern had to say about this, since I haven't
really been explained what position in the Council he has, and also since all the points

have been mentioned together when I've comented on the complaint in public, so then
I think it would be most apropriate if all the points in the complaint were answered
togheter aswell, even if some of the points also has been brought up in another context.

Also I think it add to the general overviewabilty of the answer, if the original indexing
from the complaint was kept.

I haven't comented on the indiviadual points from the answer here, I think it would be
smartest to sort with the issues above first, and then deal with the individual complaints

later, if you think this would be alright.

Hope that this is alright, and please tell me if there is anything else I need to take into
concern, to get my answer in line with your complaint-procedure.

Yours sincerely,

Erik Ribsskog
– Hide quoted text –

 

On 8/10/07, Kneale, Steve <Steve.Kneale@liverpool.gov.uk> wrote:

Sir,
Please find attached a response to the matters pertaining to Lifestyles Fitness Centres and your recent complaint.

Regards

Steve Kneale
Sport & Recreation Service – Facility Operations
Business Development Manager

Office location:
1st Floor, Lifestyles Everton Park
Great Homer Street
Liverpool L5 5PH

Tel: +44 (0)151 233 6362
Fax: +44 (0) 151 233 6300

Web: http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/lifestyles

Liverpool – European Capital of Culture 2008

______________________________________________________________________
DISCLAIMER:

The information in this e-mail is confidential and may be read, copied or used only by the intended recipient(s). If you have received it in error please contact the sender immediately by returning the e-mail or by telephoning a number contained in the body of the e-mail then and please delete the e-mail without disclosing its contents elsewhere. No responsibility is accepted for loss or damage arising from viruses or changes made to this message after it was sent. The views contained in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of the author's employer or service provider.

This email has been automatically scanned for viruses and malicious content by MessageLabs for your protection
______________________________________________________________________

 

10th August 2007 Enquiries: Steve Kneale

Direct Line: 0151 233 6362

Our ref. SK 10Au 07

Mr. E. Ribsskog

via e-mail.

eribsskog@gmail.com

 

Dear Eric,

 

Thank you for sending us your comments dated 6th August 2007, that have fed into our 'Have Your Say' customer feedback system.

Your communication raises a number of issues, some of which I understand have resulted in responses. However, if any of your previous communications have not been satisfactorily resolved or even responded to then please accept my sincere apologies. I will however try to address your concerns below.

With regard your direct debit subscription to Lifestyles. I am aware of some problems you encountered. In November 2006 we installed a new It system into the Lifestyles centres that did result in a number of problems with collections. These are now resolved and I understand your account is in balance, as advised via e-mail dated 3rd July 2007.

Within the Lifestyles Millennium we strive to provide a high quality service. We do employ cleaners who should not have entered the male changing areas when persons were present and we have changed the cleaning regime to stop this happening in future.

Cleaning staff, together with the fitness instructors are required to clean all areas including the fitness equipment but not interfere with member's enjoyment of using the centre.

Lifestyles Millennium has been closed since 25th June and will re-open on Monday 13th August 2007 to allow essential repairs in the shower areas. Messages were put on the Wellness system and notices displayed in the facility for 2 weeks prior to closure in accordance with our customer charter.

We have informed Liverpool Direct of updates and tried to keep the internet updated as we received feedback from contractors with regards the re-opening date.

Members who used Lifestyles Millennium were reimbursed due to its closure and were informed in writing to their home address.

All staff are expected to wear identity badges at all times. Although this does not denote their designation nor authority. Members should be encouraged to report any incidents to any member of staff who will attempt to resolve the matter or report it to a senior colleague. If you have any further cause to report a matter at our facilities I would ask you ask to speak with the duty manager. If you feel this is inappropriate at the time, please can you contact me directly, ideally by telephone to discuss at the earliest opportunity.

I wish to thank you again for your valued feedback.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response to your complaint, please contact me either via e-mail, telephone or in writing, where the matter can be escalated to a further stage.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Steve Kneale

Business Development Manager

Sport & Recreation Service

steve.kneale@liverpool.gov.uk

 

07/c/06289/RA/ch
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from Erik Ribsskog < eribsskog@gmail.com> hide details 8:05 pm (39 minutes ago)
to st3 york <st3york@lgo.org.uk>

date Aug 10, 2007 8:05 PM
subject 07/c/06289/RA/ch
mailed-by gmail.com

Hi,

thank you very much for your answer to my complaint regarding the problems at the
Council gym.

It was just one thing I was wondering about, and that was if my complaint to the Duty Officer
at the gym isn't being regarded as an official complaint?

It would be very fine if you please have the oppertunity to make this clear to me!

Thank you very much in advance, and thank you very much for you help again!

Yours sincerely,

Erik Ribsskog
 
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